Spiritually Segregated (Part1)

I’d like to pose a question to everyone and hope you can provide an honest and respectable response to this question. I ask it to survey the thoughts, ideas and suggestions on what I believe is one of the contributing elements in what is ruining the world. I don’t want to be misunderstood, because I know it isn’t the only factor, but it has absolutely contributed to the various declines in human decency and moral sensibilities in history until today.

Personally I know that there are various types of diversity in worship, so I’m not referring to all churches, synagogues, mosques or temples. But the words of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. remain true when he said that “11 o’clock on Sunday morning is the most segregated hour in America”. When you consider how we worship today, regardless of the day, time, place or method of worship it’s often segregated or sparsely integrated. This is not exclusively to any one race, religious belief or denomination.

So I say all of this to ask three questions that I hope doesn’t get me stoned or vanished to a virtual Isle of Patmos. Perhaps I need to just look towards the ground and write these questions in the dirt. 😀

The Questions
1) Why isn’t there more diversity in our churches, synagogues, mosques or temples?
2) Should churches, synagogues, mosques and temples begin instituting cultural diversity ministries and sensitivities training?
3) What will you do to answer these question?
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20 thoughts on “Spiritually Segregated (Part1)

  1. The answer to the first question is, in its simplest, form is that we don’t want more diversity in our places of worship. A slightly more detailed response – this is a matter for books, not blog comments, is that the various sects grew up separated and their forms of worship are based upon individual cultures; people of foreign cultures rarely feel comfortable in the houses of worship of other peoples.

    The answer to the second question is, of course, no so long as their are separate cultures. Religion is a cornerstone of culture and “diversification” would only pollute that.

      1. timvalentine,

        Look at it this way – Assuming you’re stepping outside the normal racist resentment exhibited by many minorities, then diversity would have to be a “two-way street.” Given that the majority is normally the dominant group and that the dominant culture normally subsumes the minority culture, “diversity” would likely result in the destruction of the various “minority churches” as they were integrated into the larger fold.

        While overall the dissolution of exilic minority cultures and their population’s integration into the greater whole would be a net benefit for everyone involved, I do not, and never have, felt that such should be an absolute phenomenon. Churches should be, in my opinion, a bastion of cultural integrity.

        The loss of the Black Church – Cone’s Black Liberation “Theology” being a stark exception – would be a grave loss to its people and to the fabric of American worship as a whole.

      2. Dude,

        First, you’re wrong on so many levels. If you knew about resentment or even addressed any of the issues I’ve addressed in the way I’ve addressed them you would know that I’m the far from racist. When someone is uncomfortable speaking with intelligence about race such as you have you believe those who do have some sort of resentment. I can teach you, but you don’t want to be taught. Therefore I allow you to make yourself look ignorant and racist by just letting you say whatever you choose to say.

        Second, this is part 1 and I honest appreciated your response. You’re the one starting something and I’m being open-minded enough to let you speak whatever you choose to speak. I don’t have to prove anything to you and you can believe whatever you choose about me. My works can stand on their on against anything you can think to suggest about me. So when you see what this series is about you’ll see I’m suggesting inclusion. Someone who was racist or held any sort of resentment would take the position you took and would not be advocating inclusion.

        So what’s the attack and assumptions for. Wait to see what the rest are about first before you reveal your racist resentment.

        WOW! 3 questions and you just assume I’m trying to attack someone. I’m talking about inclusion. YA IDIOT. I swear you make yourself you bad. All I have to do is to smile 😀

      3. My – defensive aren’t you? Do you have something to prove or something to hide? 😛 Really, I don’t which – or if either is true.

        But…I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt without turning a willfully blind eye to the fact that “diversity,” when called for by a minority or Liberal has all to often been a “dog whistle” for hand-outs, preferential treatment, and “reparations” of one form or another.

        So…is this “inclusion” you desire to be a two-way street? If so, are you willing to see the Black Church ( a cultural entity) diluted and possibly ended as a phenomenon in a couple of generations? The majority tends to subsume the minority after all.

      4. You’re absolutely amazing Jo. Ignorant, but amazing. I hope you are learning something although I doubt you are. I bet you’re one of the most diverse and inclusive people in your city. 😀

        Anyway, tell your Black or Latino or Asian or Arab or Woman spiritual leader, whether that is Christian or whatever belief you’re subscribe to visit. I’m interested in what they have to say. It seems that the only person with doubts is yourself, but that comes when you’re insecure of who you are and what you believe. I hope you’re enjoying yourself, because there’s more.

        By the way, since you’re such an inclusive person perhaps you can respond to this one since I’ve got you thinking. What are YOU doing to be more inclusive?

        I noticed months ago you never respond to the questions of inclusion or even personal responsibility, only projected defensiveness. You accuse others of what you essentially are. Listen, let me give you one more olive branch with hopes you’ll grab it. The more you speak, the more racist you sound. You try to provoke and attack, but you fail to answer anything with a coherent respond. The arguments of all of the things you’ve said are weak and unfounded. You can just read the response of others. Don’t consider my response, look at what others have to say.

        I’m doing my part, but what responsibility have you taken?

        None.

        Sigh, Good Luck Dude. I honestly wish you well. But wait a minute, according to you I don’t like White people (if you only know how funny that really is, you would laugh too). Seriously, I hope you’ve enjoyed the spotlight of your issues.

        Isn’t it interesting for a person who is called countless unsupported and silly names and false accusations that I’m inclusive enough to entertain your thoughtlessness and inconsideration?

        😀

      5. Timvalentine,

        Of course I not doing anything to make my place of worship “more inclusive.” As I stated in my original comment, I’m not in favor of making any efforts along those lines.

        On the other hand, if others of the same faith wish to worship with my group, they’re always welcome. We don’t turn others of the faith away.

        But you also refuse to answer questions. Let’s try a simple one – what do you mean by inclusiveness? In what context? And who do you think should be reaching out?

        I’m also more than a little confused about your inclusion of other religions in your discussions. That seems ridiculous if the context is worship together as opposed to just not attacking each other in some form another.

  2. First of all, Tim. I think that diversity is a great thing and we can all learn from every other race, nationality, religion & culture.

    I don’t think there is more diversity because people don’t take the time to put away their fears & step outside of their own comfort zone long enough to let others in or to get to know others themselves. It’s really not that difficult & it doesn’t take long to figure out that we are all the same. I know you have heard it before probably but “We all presumably love our parents & our children & want the best for them. We all struggle with our own insecurities & eccentricities on a daily basis. We all want to love & be loved. We all (well, most) have a religious or spiritual belief system.” All we really have to do is learn acceptance, patience & tolerance. It’s really just that simple…unless you are an idiot!! 🙂

  3. Tim , I don’t think I have had a more segregated diatribe of horse manure presented to me. Jonalin does not understand that the world evolves in thought as well as acceptance. This whole cluster of garbage was so disturbing to me that he almost made me sick. One group being diluted by the other as a subset of another larger group. If we do not accept and enjoy each other then we are moving backwards. I find his comments hiding a racist profile. Don’t try this on us my friend, we are all brothers by a different mother. Rather than dignify this tripe , I say I love and welcome all my friends. It would add some wonderful understanding if we all just joined the same church. Quit the intellectual garbage it doesn’t work for you. Cole Taylor

  4. I think church/religious segregation occurs even within those organizations where beliefs are shared because church isn’t culture free.
    I don’t think we should or could worship together because if i believe Jesus is “the Savior” (and i do) and someone else believes some other entity is supreme then there will be no unity in worship. However, as a Christian i believe that I am admonished to do what is just, to love mercy and to walk humbly with my God, which means i will treat others as Christ has instructed in His Word.
    That being said, I think where we can come together is in the area of service, e.g., habitat for humanity, tutoring programs, etc.
    Tan

    1. Tan,

      First, thanks. I appreciate your thoughtfulness. Second, I agree with you absolutely. You’re getting my point. This is exactly what I’m talking about. I don’t expect it to be solved instantly, but if someone doesn’t point out the problem, we can not begin to solve it.

      I’ve been very fortunate to have grown up in a very culturally, economically, politically and spiritually diverse environments all of my life. I can honestly point out more than one friend of various races, religious practices, political affiliations and economic status as true friends. I believe one of the things that has sustained our friendships for all these years is our acceptance and respect of and towards each other.

      One of my fondest memories was as a pre-teen and having some of the parents of the neighborhood kids stop us while we were playing to tell us that they were proud to see us playing to well. When I and another friend asked why? They said because we were example of Dr. King’s dream. At the time I didn’t understand, but later on when I taught about it I understood better. The neighborhood friends consist of Arab & American Muslims, Atheists, Christians, Jehovah Witnesses, Catholic and Jewish. We recognized our differences, but we embraced them instead of allowing them to segregate us.

      So you’re on target with my point. We may not have an absolute equal mixture of cultures in worship, but it never hurts to seek a better understanding of how we worship. That comes by opening our minds to consideration of other forms of belief. Not to be converted, but to fellowship. I believe it makes you a better believer when you can socialize, have conversations and build a friendship with someone who doesn’t worship or looks like you. It allows you to see through those who choose not to be so open.

  5. And, as usual, my comment disappears. Tell me, is it just the nature of your blog or am I singled out for special moderation?

    If I am, that’s fine. I’d just like to know.

    1. Sigh, first you should check your browser, because your comments are appearing. I’m not like some who delete comments that are ignorant, just when they are racist or offensive to others. So click REFRESH (F4) perhaps scrolling down helps as well. When you click comments your comments are there. So that excuse doesn’t work.

      Also, seriously, if you’re using an old web browser such as IE6 you should consider upgrading or choosing a better browser such as Firefox, Opera or Safari.

      1. LOL

        It’s F5, not F4 for refresh – CTL-F5 to force refresh from server, though my browser (Firefox 3.6.2 ) is set not to cache in the 1st place.

        I was just checking; no offense was intended. I’m writing this off as an issue relating to the interaction of your blog / theme, my account/credentials, and WordPress.com – No big deal.

      2. Man, you’re right. I knew that and didn’t even catch my mistake. Forgive me, thanks for the correction.

        Well we use the same web browser. I personally can’t stand Internet Explorer for various reasons. See we do have something in common 😀

        Listen, man. I know we disagree politically and that’s fine. I don’t always agree with Democrats and think they too have some things to do as well. You have the wrong perception of me in terms of race, but I’m more comfortable speaking/writing about it in detail that has taken some people who may not be as versed as me on the explicit details of it the wrong way until they take the time to see what I’m trying to accomplish. I’ve been critical of Blacks as well as all other races. It’s the extremism of it all that is the problem.

        Politically, I’ve repeatedly tried to get Republicans to just see what they’re doing in terms of excluding people, not just Black, but everyone. There are some crazy ass Black people out there, just as there is White, Asian, Hispanic, Pacific Islander, Jewish, Native American & Arab. The problem is not a Black and White problem but everyone’s problem, but some people can’t understand that point.

        The reason why I even approve your comments is that you, at least not yet, have responding with the names that some who has said they were Republican and White have. I can take what you say, because I’ve heard it before. When you cross the line and call me or others racially derogatory names, sexist comments or religiously demeaning names as some have, that’s whey I will not approve you anymore. In addition, I have blocked those who spoke about children inappropriately (sexually) or about the recently deceased. But to my knowledge, you’ve never done that. So disagree or not I generally will listen/read to what you have to say. Now I admit you’ve border lined often, but at least you’re reading it.

        I’m one of the most open-minded guys you may know. I love being in the skin I’m in, but I make sure you feel the same about yourself. I’m not out to attack you, but will hit back when needed. I don’t dislike Republicans, I dislike what the party itself is allowing to go on in their name. Ex: I wouldn’t expect you to be a Democrat if you saw primarily Blacks, Latinos & Asians protesting and calling members of your party that looked like you monkeys, or derogatory names that has racial overtones to it. In fact I would be out there going after the Democrats if I saw that. I’ve made many Black people mad and although I understand some of the frustration I honestly tell them the same thing as I would anyone else.

        Finally, I don’t think you’re a bad guy. I think you may not be taking others into consideration all the time. Some people say, “put yourself in their shoes” and see if you would say the same thing. Often we only look at things from our own point-of-view without taking a moment to understand where others are coming from. I’m only asking people to consider others beyond themselves.

        Last thing for real. (this is not directed to you jonolan) I generally only allow a single person to comment 3 times on a single post, so others can feel that they can join in the conversation. I already had someone remind me of that with our conversations. So to that person, you know who you are, it’s ok to comment. Yes I will stick to what I said and allow 3 per person. Forgive me. After this I will get back on track.

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